Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Mkay? That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? And that's with the big heavy battery too. I have this motor. In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Wait, 23-27kms? I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. the rattle it because the sprag bearing that used to be used in most motors has been replaced by DT swiss style star ratchet drive rings. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. February 22, 2021. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. Otherwise I do not care. @tomdesoals: That excuse that Shimano put out by their customer service dept . Then theres the BT-8035-L battery, which is a 504Wh battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the 630Wh version. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Thanks! The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. That rattle would drive me bonkers. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. Shimano also claims this issue is. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? It's kinda frustrating. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. Ive only charged 2x. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Is this a review for ants? Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? - Tuning options are simple and effective These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Yeah but who needs all that power? However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. Update. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? I feel like I've been missing out on so much! First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Anyone having problems with the charger? My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). I'd do way more on a big day. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. No, but the best on the market IMO. - Range estimation is not reliable. Why so delicate, bro? Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. Posted Oct 21, 2020. -- Wild Bill. I find the author of this article is overly picky. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. 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